Men Made For More Podcast Episode 33: No Pain, No Gain Needs to Go with Os Aponte of Iron Core Way



Men Made For More Podcast Episode 33: No Pain, No Gain Needs to Go with Os Aponte of Iron Core Way


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In this episode we talk about focusing on the foundations before adding complexity. We discuss how not letting nearsightedness keep you from reaching your long-term goals. Are you ready to learn how to compete the right way, how to build your fitness without crushing yourself, how to build mental toughness through discipline and consistency and so much more in this episode.


If you want to get a hold of Os, you can find him at www.ironcoreway.com or contact him on Instagram at @ironcoreway or subscribe to their YouTube channel. If you enjoyed this show, make sure to subscribe and please help us by leaving a 5 star review.  Also, don’t hesitate to reach out on social media @iostrengthperformance, or better yet – tag me in a post with your favorite part of the show! 


If you haven’t yet, make sure to join like minded men in the Men Made For More Facebook Group – designed to offer Performance Coaching to Help Men Get Strong, Feel Confident, and Level Up Their Life.


Men Made For More Podcast Episode 33: No Pain, No Gain Needs to Go with Os Aponte of Iron Core Way


[00:00:00] Dave: Welcome to the Men Made For More podcast, a show designed by men for men looking to get strong, feel confident, and live a high performing life. As men. We face many challenges as we try and strive for a better life. We want to live a meaningful and confident life. We don’t know where to start. You’ve lost your physical and mental edge.

[00:00:18] It’s keeping you from living out your full potential. You’re tired of talking about doing big things and you’re ready to start living it, but the men made for more podcasts. The goal is to teach you how to strengthen your body, your mind. And your purpose and your way to reaching your full potential.

[00:00:33] It’s time to start living as a man. You know, you can be to help lift those up that matter the most in your life. Every week, we’ll have a featured guest who will share valuable information and experience to give you actionable strategies. You can apply to live as a man you were made to go drawn or guests, knowledge and experience.

[00:00:49] More importantly, we will discuss how this applies to common challenges and struggles with being a man in today’s world. Our goal is to not only build strong men physically. But to help coach and develop strong [00:01:00] friends, sons, brothers, fathers, owners, and professionals in every area of your life. I’m your host, Dr. Dave Paczkowski,  proud husband, business owner, physical therapist and strength coach with a passion for helping other men strengthen their body, their mind, and their purpose, wherever you’re at on your journey. I’m excited to have you here with us today. Now let’s dive in today’s episode of the Men Made For More podcast..

[00:01:27] Hey guys. Welcome. And thanks for listening to today’s episode of the Men Made for More podcast, really excited for this one. I have a very special guest today. His name is Os Aponte, Os, I hope I said that. Right. And they were coaching me on it. And so I hope, uh, I got it right. Those pronunciations, the last names are not always my strong suit, but I’m very excited to have Os on here today.

[00:01:49] We are going to be talking all about. Why the lack of gradual progression in the fitness industry is causing so many problems and why the phrase, no [00:02:00] pain, no gain needs to go. So for a little more about us and his background from a young age as his life has revolved around fitness and martial artists.

[00:02:08] Since the age of 12, he became an insistent. Assistant instructor at age 15, a year later with the support of his teacher, us opened a pro bono martial arts school in his hometown of Puerto Rico, serving over 126 students weekly in 19 nine, seven, Australian the U S army, where his leaders quickly identified his affinity for health and fitness, which led to numerous appointments as unit physical training guide.

[00:02:32] After leaving the military in 2004, it was she’ll fit to continue on the path of physical training, which included dancing for professional modern dance company in San Diego, California. Us as credentials include RKC CK, FMS, Z health faces phases are I and T a strong first instructor certified SFG SFG two, and SFL is a bachelor’s degree in accounting from San Diego state university.

[00:02:58] And by embracing a [00:03:00] multidisciplinary approach to training us as clients be Nancy and dynamic results. Including increasing strength, flexibility, flexibility, fewer injuries, and healthier movement patterns. Today. ASCO owns iron core with his wife, Erica, and this year expanded their operation to the Oceanside area.

[00:03:17] Guys, we got a lot of good stuff coming your way. Just a few of the highlights to look forward to the importance of focusing on the foundations before adding complexity. Why you should not let nearsightedness keep you from reaching your long term goals. We’ll talk about how to compete the right way, how to build your fitness without crushing yourself and how to build mental toughness through discipline and consistency.

[00:03:37] So excited for this one. It’s going to be a lot of good stuff coming your way. And excited for you to learn some key things, to improve your fitness and especially the mental side of things. That’s something we’re lacking and that’s something we’re going to really dive into here today and how to do that the right way.

[00:03:53] So excited for this one. Guys, let’s get started.

[00:03:56]All right, Os, welcome to the men made for more podcasts, really stoked to have you on [00:04:00] here. I know we did an Instagram live way back when I was doing those and stoked to have this one live on a little longer and get out in the podcast world.

[00:04:08] Os: [00:04:08] absolutely. Thank you so much for having me again. I’ve been looking forward to talking to you again since we did that first one, and I’m super excited today.

[00:04:14] Dave: [00:04:14] Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I know this one will be another good one. So I want to, I want to pass it back to you just for the listeners that are not familiar with your story, giving an overview of yourself personally and professionally.

[00:04:24] Os: [00:04:24] Absolutely. So, uh, you know, um, I’ve been in San Diego for my entire adult life does from 21 until now I’m 43 now. But, um, you know, I grew up in Puerto Rico. Like I grew up here and, uh, life out there so different, you know, like. We didn’t have a car, you know, so everywhere where you go, you have to walk. If you want it to do something fun, you go out to the river, you have to hike few miles there, a few miles back.

[00:04:46] So, you know, whatever, and it’s really hot. So you take your shirt, lots of whatever you’re doing. You know, you’ve got to kind of look the part and be the part because you have to either perform well or you had to look good. Um, and, and so from a very young [00:05:00] age, I was always climbing trees and, you know, most of our games and bolts and kind of running and tagging each other and like, ah, yeah, go here, go there.

[00:05:06] Jumping fences, run away from animals and bullets in the country, you know? Cause I lived up in the mountains. Um, so I, you know, it wasn’t like a coastal beach area, but even my friends that I grew up in the coast, you know, they they’re surfing they’re body surfing or something like boogie boarding back then was very popular.

[00:05:22] I remember that. And so everywhere that you go, it’s a lot of fitness all around because, you know, we didn’t have like, you know, we didn’t have the, the Gameboys yet. You know, when I, when I was at that age and stuff like that, really no computers, you know, until I went into the military, that’s the first time I started using computers legit.

[00:05:41] Um, there were no decent trying devices. My life was really just about being out in nature, enjoying myself with my friends. And being able to be fit enough to enjoy that enough, feel like a wreck and the next day. Um, and, uh, very, very quickly I started to learn that I really love movement in a way, in a way that was different from most [00:06:00] people.

[00:06:00] So when I got involved with skateboarding around like seven or eight years old, um, you know, I remember watching all the great skaters, like. Doing this amazing things on TV, you know, some of the films that VHS tapes that we could get, you know, um, and they just look really stylish doing it. And so I started to together that a lot of the people that I admire, they moved it in a way that was very beautiful and stylish, and it looked effortless.

[00:06:23] And why that, I didn’t know that at the time, this will become a very important concept of my philosophy later on. And yeah. So just I’m putting that out there so you guys can kind of see that the journey. And then from there I went into martial arts. And that’s when things started to really click for me in terms of like, You know, some of my friends are gravitating towards like, Oh, you know, have you ever done like a bench press or they’re, they’re having this more traditional, conventional way about going about becoming a fit teenager.

[00:06:51] And I’m thinking more of in terms of like, I want to learn this Kung Fu set , or that kick that I can’t do. How do I figure out that kick? How do I figure out [00:07:00] this move? And so it goes like that. And then I to start boxing. And when I go to boxing, I started to figure out that I already had a lot of skill, but where I come from, I never boxed before.

[00:07:09] How did this come into planning? So again, these are all things that I didn’t realize at the time, but now they’re very important part of my whole system. And then from martial arts, um, and doing wrestling. And again, I go into wrestling and learning wrestling in those first three months. Right. You don’t learn wrestling the first three months, but the basics of it, right.

[00:07:28] While you need that, you will perfect for the rest of the time that you practice quickly absorb it. Well, every time I learned something new, it seemed like I had like this stock of knowledge somewhere that I could call upon to learn the new thing. Right. And that’s when that whole thing about movement vocabulary started, which is very much.

[00:07:47] An integral part of me as a professional and the way that I teach and I conduct my, my sessions and my training and all that. Um, and then from there, you know, I went on to really live the, the, the, the real personal stuff, you know, joining [00:08:00] the military in San Diego, out of my first duty station, which is fantastic, you know, being in the military.

[00:08:05] I’m sure we’ll talk about this a little bit more later, but it gave me a lot of experience in training people individually and trying to really address what they’re. The obstacles and their limitations work, you know? Um, and again, I’ll get more details until about that, but that’s when I started more focusing from, you know, learning and absorbing and filling up my glass and they started sure, a little bit of that with other people that needed my help.

[00:08:31] Maybe they needed to lose weight. Maybe they couldn’t pass their two mile run, you know, or maybe they couldn’t pass their pushup test, whatever it was. I was like, Alright, I think I know what to do and sure enough things work. So I was like, okay, cool. And then from there, when I got out, because I’ve been involved with all this fitness, since a young kid, and then in the military, it seemed like a natural progression to go and, you know, like become a trainer.

[00:08:53] So I got a crappy certification, you know, like most of us do the first time. And then I went on. [00:09:00] Um, to start training in Hillcrest, uh, at the powerhouse gym there. And that was very much like, you know, those first couple years were very much like servicing people that just want it to come in and be buff, you know?

[00:09:11] So it was a very old school bodybuilding style type of approach, you know, or the wind splits, you know, back and bi’s and legs and shoulders chest. and tri’s ya know that whole thing. People get like super stoked about, um, and we even had a 30 minute session that you could come in and do ask the whole time. Boy haved times have changed for me.

[00:09:32] Right? So my evolution continued like that. It continued on the path of movement, right? So skateboarding, martial arts, boxing, wrestling, all of these things are starting to think they have something in common. What is it? When I found it, I find myself being better at all of them, not just one thing. And then I began modern doing contemporary dance, modern dance here in San Diego.

[00:09:57] Um, danced professionally for about three years, went to [00:10:00] Europe and everything else. So like legit, like was dancing with a company and traveling and everything getting paid for. It was really cool. Um, again, I learned, I picked that up a lot quicker than I would if I had just gone off the street and started, I want to dance.

[00:10:12] Right. And then from there, you know, I started to discover the geniuses of our time. Paul Chek, um, Gray Cook , Brett Jones, Pavel. And the list goes on, you know, where I’m going with this now. Right? And that’s where everything just kind of came full circle for me. When I started to see that it really is a lot about movement, about movement vocabulary and that they are Some basic things that we can do that can prepare us to better engage in whatever else we may want to do. And that has been the whole basis of my training philosophy ever since.

[00:10:47]Dave: [00:10:47] Yeah, I love you sharing that. And I had know, we get along so well too. Cause movement is the glue that holds these things together and I love how you use movement vocabulary in a, another. Previous guests on here, uh, Drew Gallagher [00:11:00] talks a lot about movement literacy and defining movement and those things.

[00:11:03] And when we get into that in a previous episode, so I’m excited to expand on that a little more and get your take because so much of the fitness industry is it’s just like it’s grinding through it. We, we see. No pain, no gain. We see dues paid. We see sweat angels. We hear things all the time as these edge is of honor that if you don’t, if you’re not doing that day in and day out of the day gym, then are you really training hard?

[00:11:26] Are you bro, or even, or even successful bro if you’re, if you’re not things. So we think though, that pushing harder and harder is the answer to more and more success when it comes to fitness. But I think we both argue there’s, there’s a better way. And I’d like to hear your thoughts on. Why no pain, no gain has to be banned from a lot of people’s vocabulary.

[00:11:46] And why it’s such a problem in the fitness industry today.

[00:11:49] Os: [00:11:49] Yeah. You know, from, from our perspective as professionals in the field, it’s a matter of professional and personal responsibility, right. People come to us for direction. [00:12:00] It’s hard to justify anyone in our position prescribing that kind of mentality or promoting it rather, uh, because when you, when you walk into any gym, right, it’s kind of hard now in COVID days.

[00:12:15] But if you walk into any gym and take a glance, you can see as a trained professional. Probably right away, 20 people that you want to go over and start helping with, you know, let me fix your form here. Let me fix your form. They’re like you breathing properly. There’s so much, there’s so much, but yet in a lot of ways, there’s some very simple, fundamental things that anyone can learn.

[00:12:37] I mean, these are not exclusive things that only professionals do. And so when you’re prescribing people to just have this, like go, go, go mentality. But they’re not really prepared. They don’t have the knowledge how to do it. Well enough, what are you doing? What, what exactly are encouraging to me, it sounds like you’re encouraging poor form.

[00:12:57] You’re encouraging, you know, poor technique and [00:13:00] not being engaged enough in the moment when what you’re doing that can potentially lead to an injury, potentially something that can follow you for life. So if we just take a step back and try to educate people on why, like, and like I said, If this is a lot of these things are not that hard.

[00:13:16] You take them couple of sessions or you, you know, we live in an age where there’s so much knowledge out there. All you have to do is Google it or go on YouTube and look it up and you will find some quality stuff out there. You may find some stuff that is a little bit not so great, but you know, there’s a lot of people like yourself who have like great education in this field that are putting out free content weekly.

[00:13:40] You know, and so you can go in and look at what is good technique for this movement or that movement or whatever. And so. A boy. And I think it was Gray Cook that said something to the effect of like slapping fitness on top of this function or something like that. So that phrase comes to mind because you’re thinking, [00:14:00] okay, let’s take something like a burpee, which is by its nature.

[00:14:03] It’s done like repetitively, like bah, bah, bah set after set. And then you add on top of that, let’s add some fatigue to that so that you can further break down your form and then let’s push three times further after you reached that point. At that point, what you’re doing, it’s not even really what it was intended to be done with the burpee.

[00:14:21] The neural loops that you’re utilizing the muscle fibers that you’re using potentially are different at that point, because you know, like you fatigue a certain muscle to its max and then some others take over people don’t think of that. Right. So if you’re supposed to be doing something that it’s really explosive.

[00:14:38] And you’re doing it for too many way, too many reps, then that’s what you’re encouraging. And to me, that’s the mentality, right? It’s like, you gotta work really hard, but maybe we just have to work smarter because if we laid that groundwork upfront, then we’re setting yourself up to do that hard work later.

[00:14:57] And here’s the other thing, even if we get there, [00:15:00] let’s say somebody comes in and they’re for good students, super good claim. And they’re like, I’m going to do everything that you told me. Great. You get them through a little program and they’re moving fantastic. There’s no pain, full range of motion. You know, just good everything, right.

[00:15:15] Balance is good. Vision is good. Proprioception is good. And then we get to that point where we can unleash their performance. Are we going to continue to do that forever? Good science and good, like recent says, no, we’re going tdulate that we’re going to pull back and we’re going to build back up stronger with more skills.

[00:15:35] Maybe the skills that we build now are perhaps a bit more complex than, than ones that we started with, like before. Right? So let’s make an example. Let’s say somebody comes in and they’re the good student model. They’re the good client model. And they learn to swing. And so for three months, man, they groove that thing and is awesome.

[00:15:52] It’s like just perfection. So crisp, this breathing is sunk in just Ryan. When you look at it from a mile [00:16:00] away, you know, that is the kettlebell swing, right. Well, why can you do from there? Do more swings, no, pull back, take a couple of weeks off for one, go to the beach, take a couple of, walks something. I don’t know.

[00:16:10] Go on vacation. Maybe you can do. One of my favorite things to do is why don’t we do a little body weight in between these loaded sessions, right? Take a couple of weeks, maybe three, maybe a whole month. Let’s do some body weight, just focus on some body weight, make sure that the patterns are still there.

[00:16:25] Nothing’s changed. And then the next time, instead of working on swings, now we’re working on snatches. Now we’ve made it more complex, right? And we keep doing this over time. Let’s say I have to get boring. I don’t think so. You could go onto the one and double swings, double snatches and all kinds of other ballistics and things like that.

[00:16:42] And furthermore, the work that you’ve done up to this point can probably be period to do like a different area activity altogether that it’s not in the context of traditional strength and conditioning protocols. Right. Maybe you pick up jujitsu and you find that you feel like a bag of bricks on the, on the ground when you’re on top of someone [00:17:00] and that is an asset to you.

[00:17:01] And where do you get that? You got it with kettlebells, right. And so on, so forth. So again, you know, I talked about how. Having all these different modalities, the skateboarding help that martial arts with the stylistic stylistic form of moving. And then the martial arts helped understand pugilistic science better or boxing better.

[00:17:20] And then wrestling, you know, there was this pattern of like using what you learn before and applying it to why you learn next. And so these fitness protocols, they need to be able to do that if they really are going to enhance your life. If they’re going to make you enable a very able and vibrant human being that can just go and engage in different things, whatever you want.

[00:17:40] Right. Maybe, maybe it’s even like, you know, just for a short while, but then your body, you know, tissues, don’t, don’t change in a day. They need lot long periods of time to adapt to the stress that we put on them. Right. So you got to have that discipline to apply what you’ve learned. And then when your body is [00:18:00] resilient and they, it can express all that power, all that movement, that beautiful movement in different forms, then you can have fun with it, but there’s going to be a period of adaptation that, you know, it’s inevitable.

[00:18:11] Right? We can’t rush these things. And there’s a little bit of a homework on your part as a practitioner, right. That you have to be right willing to put in the work in. Yeah. The frustrating part is that a lot of people are out there constantly. Posting things about putting the work, trust the process, but then they don’t follow that mentality either.

[00:18:29] They don’t follow that same advice. They want things to be really quick and they want to, you know, just jump from one thing to the other without allowing the process to truly take its course, you know?

[00:18:40] Dave: [00:18:40] Yeah, I think there’s so much, so much good stuff. And I. I think the discipline’s a big piece of it. I think people, they want more, they want more variety in their routines. They’re not, they’re not set on really mastering the basics and the basics and those foundations are what will eventually lead you to really excel at those things that you’re [00:19:00] trying to excel at anyways.

[00:19:01] And for the average population for most, uh, most guys listening, I’m sure in general what you want to look good. You want to look fairly good with your shirt off? You want to feel good? Like the basics will still help you get there. You don’t have to overcomplicate it okay. To program or push too fast. Those basics are what is going to allow for sustainability over time, less injury, less setback.

[00:19:20] It’s we use the same thing of if you dieting is an easy example, if you pushing yourself in the gym as the same way, if you feel like you have to put yourself day in, day out as similar to. Eating 1200 calories a day for six days out of the week, but then you’re so hungry on the seventh day that you absolutely stuff your face with the worst of things.

[00:19:41] It’s like, okay, how, how much progress are we really making over the course of a week? And I think taking our lens back from, okay, how much better did I get this single week to, am I getting better the next month? The next, like six months, the next, the next year and those things. And why do you think it’s so hard for people to, to see that big picture though, and to get so caught up [00:20:00] in how many calories that I burned, this workout?

[00:20:02] How hard did I push what’s? What’s the, what’s the barriers that you see for that?

[00:20:06] Os: [00:20:06] You know, I watch a lot of sports and I hear a lot the phrase, um, A person or of the moment, you know, when, when, when commentators, we started talking about the performance of an athlete and you know, Oh, LeBron was amazing last night, he’s the best in the world. He has a subpar game, not even a bad game, but a subpar gave me, Oh my God, he’s declining.

[00:20:28] He’s through all, you know, it’s like just yesterday, he was the best in the world. Right. So I think so something has shifted. I don’t know if this has ever been part of the collective mentality of our society. Okay. I really don’t know. I, this is something that you and I have alluded to before or talked about before, and that is that I’ve always seen in the long term.

[00:20:53] I have a hard time not seeing the longterm. So I. I suppose that [00:21:00] a us as a society, we’re just really short term driven, you know? I mean, it’s, you, you, you can see some of that in our social media engagement, right? Yeah. Like, you know, it’s every day you have to posts that new thing, that new thing, that new thing, that new thing.

[00:21:16] And so somehow that’s permeated. Are like real, and I hate to use that word your lives, you know, but you know what I mean? Like this, the face to face contact and the things that we do and how we do them. Um, there’s, you know, there’s a lot of careers out there that are emphasized this, go, go, go to, you know, it’s, it’s a hectic environment.

[00:21:36] Um, from training people, you know, high powered, you know, executives that are like CEOs and. CFOs, uh, you know, the, the heads of departments and they’re responsible for hundreds of people. They’re the ones that work out at five in the morning, you know, and they’re willing to share oftentimes, you know, how, how busy their lives are, but everything in their life is so fast.

[00:21:59] So that I [00:22:00] think as a society, we have accepted that this is, this is the way that it is. Right, but I’ll give you another. Um, like platitude that gets thrown out there on social media all the time. And that is this whole thing about be the change. Right? So I think that’s an integral part of how I see myself as a professional is to really live that life where I’m thinking ahead and making plans for the future, instead of just worrying about like, Oh, I got to kill myself this week.

[00:22:32] I got to kill myself in this workout. But rather adopt that mentality of like, you know what that last said, that it feels so great. I’m going to stop there. That’s it session over? Why, why would I only, if I have this myopic view of things, will I be forced? Well, I force myself to do that next. I said, even if that last one didn’t feel so great.

[00:22:56] But if I know the next week, I’m going to train again [00:23:00] and the week after death and the month after that. And you know, sometimes I am reluctant to share this because it’s a little crazy, but my plans for my own programs go to next week, they go to next month, they go to next year. And I’m even thinking about things that I want to do in 10 years.

[00:23:16] Like I’ve recently done things that I started practicing when I was way younger. Like I’m like this close to doing a one arm handstand, like. this close. And that’s a goal that I’ve been working on for ages. Now, if I became a specialist and I did nothing but that I do it sooner. Sure. Would that be enjoyable to me?

[00:23:36] No. Well, it’d be healthy, potentially not. So a lot of risks and shoulder injuries that come with those professional hand balancers that can do that. So if I have to take decades to align my tissues so that they can stain that load without me sacrificing anything else. Out of my fitness and the quality of my life I’ll do the decades [00:24:00] gladly.

[00:24:00] I still get to do the trick and best of all, I get to go through that real process, man, when you’re talking about doing something that takes a second. It’s like thing. Okay. There it is. The picture you come down and you’re willing to work for it for decades. I think that tells something about the mindset, the, of the individual, you know, how committed they can be to a singular goal that they’re going a bit roundabout about.

[00:24:25] And in the meantime, we’re working on some things that are more applicable to where I’m at today. I gotta be able to demo in class. So my skills as a kettlebell instructor, they have to be there. You know, my students will model what I do. My body weights though. They has to be there. You know, now not everyone’s coming to me to do one hand that has dance, you know, but I have quite a few people that want to do pistols.

[00:24:46] So my pistols there, they’re pressing constantly revolving around in the things that I do. Right. But you gotta be okay with having some things that are going to take a little bit longer and having [00:25:00] some things that are just kind of like simmering. They’re not super high intensity, but they’re keep you going.

[00:25:05] They keep you healthy. They provide that foundation that you can rely upon to do some of these other fun things and be between I, and so that’s not as fun as killing yourself for the next few days or killing yourself to the end, this workout. I think I made, you know, that’s a really interesting question and I think it’s, it’s one that pertains to the collective mindset of us as a society now, because when you get somebody in your gym, And there are in your facility and they’re having a really great time and seeing they start to shift their mindset to leaving that last rep in the tank and walking away from that, you know, that word got it.

[00:25:42] It didn’t feel so great. You know, like from that last. And so, yeah, I think, you know, it’s the environment that you’re in. And we are all in this environment collectively. So unless we get around similar mind, mind, like people, right. That we can like, you know, like if you and I worked in the same gym, there will be no, [00:26:00] no problem on there.

[00:26:00] Right. Because we have the same mentality. Right. But if I go and start working out with people that are constantly doing 10,000 snatch or 10,000 swinging, you know, challenges, and they are doing them like every year, twice a year, Then I may be inclined to, you know, feel the pressure to be like, Oh, I’m not going to be seen as a good credible instructor if I don’t do that.

[00:26:20] You know? So you feel that pressure, you know, if the group, group pressure, you know, to, to engage in these things that deep down inside, if you thought about it as a professional and educated professional that has gone through several certifications and has read books and has helped people, you know, become better, you will see that that’s not the right answer.

[00:26:39] Dave: [00:26:39] Yeah, I think those pressures are dangerous and those can be self-imposed as we talk about. There’s there’s benefits to all the free content out there. If we look at something like social media, there’s a lot to learn. If you’re willing to go down that route and learn it. But the dangers with that, as you see where someone’s at on their end of their journey, they see someone, like you say, you snap a picture of your [00:27:00] one handed handstand, and it’s like, wow, I want that.

[00:27:03] And they don’t see the. Thousands of thousands of thousands of hours that went into doing that. The, the, a lot less sexy things out there of mobility work and joint work and those things that are super important. If you’re, if your goal is sustainability, but people want to want to skip steps. And I think they want to take the shortcut, but we see it all the time and then people will make this great progress for a few weeks.

[00:27:27] Sometimes even a few months, people can get away with it. And then they crash and injury sets in and an overuse thing. And I think some of this that talked on some of the mental side of that and the importance of being able to check your ego and keep the longterm goal in mind. But what about the, the knowing progressions and regressions and knowing when to do these things?

[00:27:46] I think that’s an important overlooked thing too, is is that people see what will stay with the one, uh, single handed and Sam pushup, for example, our hand sent hold and not no, no single arm handstand pushups just yet, but that’ll be your, your [00:28:00] next thing.

[00:28:00] Os: [00:28:00] I know I was going to say, wow, that would be something.

[00:28:04] Dave: [00:28:04] Yeah. Yeah, but they see this and they, they skip steps and they say, what do they start doing? They start kicking their feet up against the wall and doing just straight hand stand holds and they start removing their feet from the wall and they just think they’re getting closer, but that’s missing a lot of steps.

[00:28:17] And can you talk about, and whether you want to use as an example or pistol squat might be another easy example for people to understand, but what are some  necessary progressions regressions that it relates to physically of getting to getting to goals appropriately?

[00:28:30] Os: [00:28:30] sure. You know, well, If you, if you have the means to hire a profressional, that would be a great thing. And there’s a lot of great trainers out there, or, you know, there’s a lot of physical therapists out there that do more like, you know, Uh, you have a more proactive approach, right? Like it’s, it’s a very different physical therapist than we had like 20, even 20 years ago or 15 years ago.

[00:28:51] Um, and these people can say you on the right path, because I asked, we’ve been alluding to this whole time. There are some basic fundamental things that [00:29:00] you can learn. And then can you start applying when you do that? They’re going to start to light up light most for you everywhere, or their dots are going to start to connect for you.

[00:29:11] And if you put it a little bit of effort into it, you know, which I think everyone should. I mean, look, people go to school. And they get the grease and it takes them four years and they’re okay with that. And then if they get a master’s that’s another three years and they’re okay with that, it’s their time and their money, but somehow it’s, you know, it’s not okay for them to think about their fitness a little bit, you know, not even a little bit, you know, cause you know, so when it comes to regressions and progressions, either you hire a professional that can help you with them and he can guide you through this.

[00:29:40] Right. Because the most important thing is the assessment, right? Where are you at right now? If you. Have difficulties getting into a rock bottom squat on two legs, the pistol was probably not the best option for you, right? So it’s really about understanding your limits patients when it comes to what are the [00:30:00] requirements?

[00:30:00] What is the criteria that this will require for me to do perform in a, you know, proficient way so that when I say proficient, what I mean is something that you can do and will not injure you. That’s enough proficiency for me to allow someone to do it. You know, if it’s, if we’re on the path to that, you know, perfect looking pistol.

[00:30:21] Okay. Are you practicing? You know, that’s okay. But if you, you look like you’re like an accident waiting to happen every time you get down. Yeah. You know, the past 90 degrees, then I’m, then I’m going to be very stern about like, we gotta stick to this level right here. That’s the only thing that I can do in this, in this facility, because again, I hold myself responsible for the people that are trained with me, that they have the, the right mindset, right.

[00:30:45] When it comes to progression. Um, and this is something that I can sometimes perhaps be guilty of, like, ah, I’m such a purist and I love the basics and the fundamentals so much. That sometimes I can hold myself back a little bit, perhaps, you know, but that [00:31:00] is a price that I’m willing to pay because I’d rather earn the side of caution and not right.

[00:31:05] They get injured and promote that longevity and feel as great as I do at my age now. And continuing to work on things that are really fun, that, that I think this was going to happen when I was 20. I planned for it, but I wasn’t sure if it would, you know, but I’ve been able to do that. And a big part of that is being prudent.

[00:31:24] And just being very conservative about what I do, but yes, I think that there’s always a right time for you to push yourself really hard. It’s usually in a life or matter life or desperate. That’s a great time to really like go all out. Okay. If you need to run from danger or fight off an animal or something, Don’t hold anything back.

[00:31:49] And then of course, there’s the platform, right? Like if you’re competing and you’ve prepared and you’ve put in the time and you get to that point, then you go all out. In fact, Pavel [00:32:00] alluded to this, you know, Joe Rogan asked him when, when would be a good time to go all out. And it’s like, well, when the lifters are on the platform, they should be able to unleash the full performance, a hundred percent in training.

[00:32:11] You should never go pass that. 90, 95. You know, because that’s training, shouldn’t be the adrenaline, the environment, just all of those things that the, the, the environment of that competition has been to elevate you a little bit more, your nervous system will be a little more and more like fired up and you’ll stay safe.

[00:32:28] This is a one attempt, but if you’re consistently doing that, Every month at your training facility, then what you’re doing to yourself as a disfavor. Right. But you’re not really promoting your performance. You’re in fact inhibiting it because we have a limited amount of that, like go all out in a, I think people need to understand that.

[00:32:47] And then when you use it all up, it’s gone and that’s it. That’s you see it happen to fighters all the time when their chin goes right. You’re, you know, you get 10, 12 good UFC fights and you get three knockouts in a row and you’re never the same [00:33:00] fighter. Again, there’s a little bit truth to that. Do I know scientifically if that’s true?

[00:33:04] No, I don’t. But just from observing fighters throughout the years, not just in MMA, but in boxing and even some of my friends that I grew up, like training with, you know, Um, all it takes is one bad injury to set you back and you’ll never be the same. So being conservative and knowing when to say, I need to do a variation that maybe it’s not a sexy, but it’s necessary.

[00:33:27] I need this. And the thing is this. And I want people to take something away from today. It’s like the process of fixing those things. It’s not as long and arduous as you think it is. Oftentimes all it takes is a few good reps and then you’re on that path. And then you can get faster limitation in a heartbeat, you know, so good.

[00:33:47] It’s an investment that oftentimes it’s not even that big of a button investment, but for some reason, it’s so hard to just take that step back. I think you, you know, you mentioned that the Eagle thing, it’s like, Hey look, and I really want you to focus on that, you know, [00:34:00] Sumo deadlift instead of the swing, because it’s, the swing is looking a little, you know, little off, you know, and they don’t want to do it, but if they did all they might take is maybe a car.

[00:34:09] Well sessions, maybe within that session, you can cue them on the right thing. And then the next set of swings. Okay. Go try it again. And then it’s back like, okay, good. That’s what you need to feel, you know, and for some reason this is so difficult for us to do as, as, as a society. And it’s, I don’t understand that, but it is.

[00:34:26] Dave: [00:34:26] Yeah, I love a lot of things you said there. And I want to, I want to circle back on some things. So the. I think this interesting, cause there’s, there’s so much of this, this back and forth with it of, cause I like what you’re saying that by pushing yourself and trying to go hard, you might actually limit your ability to go hard.

[00:34:40] If you suffer an injury, if you, if you go hard on swings or squats and your back flares up, or you go hard on doing a bunch of pushups or burpees in your shoulder, flares up, you’re going to limit your body’s ability to want to push out the next time. Every time that injury, or even just pain sets in, then you’re actually limiting your potential [00:35:00] to.

[00:35:00] Push hard because pain, your body’s going to say like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, last time we did this, this flared up. So I’m gonna, I’m going to pull back the amount you were going to let your nervous system system do. But I think the argument and to that, that I can see from, from, well, that, that do have a hard time pulling back on the reins is that they hear being conservative, being smart.

[00:35:21] And they associate these things with being soft or not being able to get the, the mental benefit of training. So where. If you have any thoughts on that, the first part of, of going hard and then being able to limit yourself because of injury. But also the second piece of that I want to touch on is how do you train, how do you train and push yourself mentally with your philosophy?

[00:35:41] Cause a lot of people that’s, and I think I’m even guilty of that too. The reason I like pushing my train hard is for the mental benefit, much more. I know there’s not physical benefits to doing it, but to get to that discomfort is the only value that I personally see from that. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of that.

[00:35:58] Os: [00:35:58] Absolutely. So, you know, the, [00:36:00] to me, you know, you really, there’s an element of courage there, right? That, you know, when, when somebody is willing or not willing, but able to just kind of like, you know, in sports as they talk about the turnout, turning on the switch, right. Getting that killer instinct, Michael Jordan style, you know, I’m going to finish the game, get that last shot.

[00:36:18] Can we bride that kind of stuff? Is that really something that we can train? That’s I think that’s the first question I want to ask. I don’t think it is. I think we either born with that or we’re not okay. The ones that have it, they know it, you know, like I’m not that competitor I’ve never was. Um, I was my, my competition days very much the same way that my training goes is consistent grinding.

[00:36:41] And I just outlast you because you don’t have that. The mental toughness that you’re talking about, it’s about me being able to say like, okay, for the next five minutes, I’m going to wrestle with this dude. And my goal is to dominate him down to the ground and pin him without allowing him to do that to me.

[00:36:59] Now, [00:37:00] I can go into, onto that mat and, and somehow rationalize all these things that had to happen in my training, all the numerous double legs that I did. Hundreds of them doubling, doubling, doubling, doubling. The conditioning, right? You’re you’re, you’re on doing your roadwork and you’re thinking about the match or visualizing the match, how it’s going to be go your way.

[00:37:22] You’re doing the things that you want to do. And then, you know, maybe, but you can have some sessions where you’re thinking about. What do I, what do I do when plan B goes out the door and I need to go to plan B and C and D and everything, right? So you want to work for some scenario. So it’s mental work.

[00:37:39] Now we were talking about this the other day that if you are going to, and I’m kind of touching on all the different things that I’ve done, but if you really want to know if you know choreography, right. Something that you’re advanced, that you’re in, let’s say you and I didn’t do it. That’d be awesome. Do it, strength, do it.

[00:37:56] And, and then I close my eyes. Lying [00:38:00] down on the floor, you have to be lying down because when we’re standing or sitting mean we can do things to trigger our memory with our bodies. You have to be lying down, close your eyes and go through the entire dance. I’ve got to be able to see what I do and why you do that.

[00:38:14] It’s an exercise in concentration. It can even be a form of like a meditation really. In martial arts, we are encouraged to do that as well. So you sit down on your knees, you know, very traditional, close your eyes and you run the kata or the form in your head from beginning to end without moving that’s concentration, that’s focused.

[00:38:35] These are the things that you need for those special moments is concentration. It’s focus. It’s the ability to shut everything out. And just, this is normal. Okay. Done this a million times. Nothing’s different. People are yelling, lights are bright and we’re going to lose the game if I don’t do it, but same thing.

[00:38:56] So the ability to focus on the task at [00:39:00] hand can come from training, right? That can be practicing training by being consistent by showing up on every, but even by showing up restraint, I think you can build the discipline, the discipline. That is the same discipline that will help you focus on the moment is the same discipline that’s required for you to be, you know, have restrained and not go all out all the time.

[00:39:23] And just know that while you’re doing now are building blocks that are going to get you there. And there’s no way to like amass that in some kind of weird bottle and Alicia at that moment, only time built that, right? Knowing that you, you have that mental discipline to stay in the moment. I think that’s, it really is staying in the moment being more present and doing what’s what’s now is practice.

[00:39:48] It’s practice guys like Al and I were all we’re doing right now. So just do the practice that shows a lot of mental strength to me, you know, because what you want to do is go hard. But what the coach is asking [00:40:00] you to do with the training or whatever, or maybe perhaps even yourself, it’s in the moment do what’s required of you right in this moment.

[00:40:06] And sometimes, most often that’s not a hundred percent. So having the discipline to do that, I think. Can permeate later on moments that are greater and bigger for you to say, okay, I’m just going to dominate this dude and not let him do anything to me, you know? And you know, maybe it’s something hurts.

[00:40:24] Maybe I pulled my groin. Maybe my neck gets a little kinked up in the middle of the, and what do I do? Oh, I did. I remember a match. I don’t remember the opponent, but it was GSP and he’s in the corner. And he tells for us his hobby. Um, I think I pulled my groin. Oh no. He said I pulled my groin and for us, that’s like, Focus.

[00:40:42] This is what champions do. And then that moment, that’s a good moment to go through that. But if you’re just taking a little stroll through the park and you pull you’re growing, go back to your car and go home. You know what I’m saying?

[00:40:55] Dave: [00:40:55] Yeah, I liked that. I didn’t, uh, the way you said it was, it [00:41:00] was different how I heard it or at least interpreted. And when, cause I wrestle with that too, of the pushing yourself mentality of trying to build mindset, but it’s the consistency and the discipline that builds that same mindset and that mental toughness and resiliency over time of, if you’re going head to head with someone in a, in a single workout, it’s like, okay, you might not.

[00:41:19] When that one, but do you have the persistence and the discipline to take them on the next one? And the next one and months later years later, 20 years later, that’s the kind of discipline. And that’s hard to see where people there’s a lot of, a lot of glory out there. There’s a lot of here, vocation of people that can.

[00:41:37] Just push it hard in a single, single workout or people from a work standpoint that can work 20 hours a day and they don’t need sleep in these things, but all of these things catch up. It’s, it’s all these myths that we see that. And we’re like, Oh man, not, I want that, but that stuff isn’t, isn’t sustainable for one and two doesn’t necessarily build mental toughness.

[00:41:56] Maybe. Maybe in the best way that we can now [00:42:00] what’s, if someone is taking that approach or someone’s bought in, they’re like, Hey yeah, no, I get it training sustainably, having the consistency. Are there some ways you use with yourself or your clients to boost up that, that top end percentage though, still in terms of maybe not working to the full a hundred percent, but I would argue that a lot of people, they maybe say they’re like, Oh, I pushed that to 90% or a hundred percent.

[00:42:22] And they were probably at like, 80 or so, so are there, are there you use if someone is bought in, on, on doing the right things for longterm, but are there other strategies you use to start to boost that top training level at least.

[00:42:36] Os: [00:42:36] Yeah. If you know, whatever we’re dealing with that I think taking good measurements, right? Like making good assessments in the beginning. When you first intake someone. Um, especially if you know that that’s their goal, right. If somebody comes to me and they’re like, I want to increase my VO2 max, so I can like be a better triathlete, you know, that’s a very measurable thing that we can do.

[00:42:54] You know? I mean, I, obviously I can’t do it in my facility, but I know the protocols that can help with that and they can go get [00:43:00] measured somewhere where that’s, you know, they have the equipment for it. Um, so that initial intake, you need to take a really good history and you need to take, is that the right information so that you can measure that later that we improve.

[00:43:13] Right. So. You know, we always in C health way. I mean, I think that now everybody uses this phrase. I don’t know that it was a seatbelt thing where we say that if you’re not assessing, you’re guessing. Right. So, um, for me, anyone that comes in, what was that performance goal specifically? Right? Because. The underlying principle of my philosophy is I want to make you perform better because I can make you perform better.

[00:43:37] You’re going to know move better. You’re going to feel great. You’re going to look pretty good. You’re going to stay safe for a long time, but some people come in. They’re like, I want to get to that 90, 95% that you were talking about. So measuring upfront, what is the, the baseline that they can have and then going forward with that, that’s an important thing.

[00:43:57] You know, something that I’m actually going to start working on is my [00:44:00] wife is going to be, come on SFG. So we’re going to start training for her. So, you know, she’s, she’s trained with me for years. So, you know, she’s no stranger to kettlebell training. She could easily, you know, be an instructor and you know, I’m going to send her in like looking awesome.

[00:44:16] But she’s going to, she’s going to have to pass that smash test, right. So we’re going to make an assessment and see where she’s at with her snatches, and then we’re going to make, or do it in a way, you know that up until her hurt ’em certification in a way where she’s not sore and her hands are not ripped.

[00:44:33] It’s a very gradual progression. So you can get those hundred snatchs with a 16 kilos in five minutes. Okay. Walk away. No problem. That’s that’s my goal for her, right? So we take whatever her 90, 90% is right now. Which we’re going to assess as a projection of a much lower percentage, right? So I’m going to be like, why don’t you go for five minutes and try to give me 60 or 50 go half how’d that [00:45:00] feel her form looked throughout that time?

[00:45:02] What was her tempo throughout the different minutes? Right. And then I take all that information. I put it together and I say, this is how we’re going to be well, so that you can finish this100 in 5 minutes and walk away, 15 seconds early, just in case you get a couple of new accounts and you’re going to be ready to run a marathon.

[00:45:19] If you want to, you know, that’s my goal. So all of those things go into it, right? Like legit measurements, the quality of the movement is formed breaking down the tempo that they’re keeping all of these things to give you valuable information and assessing those things.

[00:45:34] Dave: [00:45:34] Yeah, really well said. And I think that’s where people get confused as they think that these things might not apply. If the, if they’re training for performance for these things do go hand in hand. It’s not a matter of, of choosing between like, Oh, I have to either feel good or I can perform good. And. I talk about this.

[00:45:50] A lot of it’s we, we can have both and, uh, it might not be pushing yourself to that a hundred percent of the time, but you can over time build that top end [00:46:00] percentage up. And that top performance up by doing these things that we’re mentioning of training consistently, not pushing yourself to failure.

[00:46:07] Every workout or regularly to focus on these proper progressions and regressions to focus on making sure you have the basics nailed down and you’re focusing on quality over quantity and all these things play a role in, in helping your performance as well. So I think the cause would you say supplies even for the person?

[00:46:25] And that’s like, Hey, I’m just trying to look like I’m trying to look better and I’m trying to get a little stronger and look a little better. Uh, I’d say these principles apply. Would you agree?

[00:46:35] Os: [00:46:35] Absolutely. Of course. Yeah. You know, and to add to what you were saying, I think that, um, earlier you had mentioned, you know, when, when you’re going head to head one other person in class, and I think the real question is why don’t you go head to head with who you were yesterday and who you are today?

[00:46:48] That is a much better comparison to have, because in this whole thing of building, building mental toughness and, you know, having courage and being able to rise up to these occasions where, you know, we [00:47:00] have to perform at an incredible rate. Um, a big part of that is having the, uh, Uh, just, just the, the self respect and the self love to know that the only person you should be competing with is yourself.

[00:47:12] You’re going through like an actual competition. I mean, in which case, most people that I know, like myself included would view competition as like a, an ally, somebody that’s going to help you discover something about yourself. That’s very much an Eastern martial arts, kind of a way of looking at it, but you know, that’s why fighters embrace in the, in the cage, after they’re done fighting, because they appreciate that each one of them brought their absolute best.

[00:47:35] You know, and even win or lose, you know, you got to appreciate when somebody, you know, like, Just, you know, meets you there in that environment. And it’s, you know, and that’s fantastic. That’s beautiful, but that’s sprayer fighting career search shorts and, you know, so are other many other careers. Um, and so able to accept that the only person that you need to impress and compete with this yourself go a long ways and giving you the [00:48:00] right mindset, the right mentality.

[00:48:02] The, just the, the feel good about why you’re doing that, why you’re doing this right. Even if it’s not about high percentage all the time. And then on the, on the second block, you, me and you were talking about the measurements and how do you go with the progressions and everything? I think it’s important to note that you don’t have to test yourself out to increase your base, right?

[00:48:22] So if you start, like, let’s say, I, you know, well with my wife, let’s say she gets 60 snatches in five minutes when we test her sometime this week. And, you know, when she goes to the surge, she comes back and she’s like, I’m like, how was it? She’s like, you know, I didn’t even go all out. I just got there in 4:30.

[00:48:43] Let’s just say, I’m like, wow, that’s amazing. Right. So the next time I test her, I’m not going to ask her to just go all out. Give me as many as you can in the five minutes. Just go at the same leisurely pace that you did last time and see how many you can get. Maybe she’ll get 75 instead of 60 that will tell Oh, me.

[00:48:59] And it [00:49:00] will tell her that yeah, her baseline is a lot higher, so we can safely assume that her top end it’s a lot higher as well. Now that’s for us, me or motor mortals. If you’re a professional, you know, in some activity or sport, then you, you know, you’re going to have to test yourself a little bit more often.

[00:49:16] And, but again, I think that the idea of going to that 100% outside of competition is unnecessary and potentially dangerous.

[00:49:25] Dave: [00:49:25] Yeah, that’s great. And I think for runners listening, this is a great example. And I heard this originally from, I think, Marxists and might’ve talked about it, but for runners out there too, if it’s the tendency, the natural tendency is I’m going to run. I’m going to max out my. Mile time or five mile time or half marathon time pick whatever distance you would.

[00:49:43] And if you truly push to all out and you’re huffing and puffing and dying, and you do that regularly, you might go from say a, a seven minute to a six 58 to a six 56 too. And it’s, it’s very, it’s debatable if you’re even actually [00:50:00] getting, getting physically better versus can I make that mile feel easier.

[00:50:05] Can I run that mile with a lower heart rate without breathing through my mouth with some of these things? And it’s, if you go from, and maybe your first mile with that is eight minutes or nine minutes, but if you can maintain a certain lower heart rate and drop that down to eight minutes and then eventually 7:45 and 7:30, 7:00, these.

[00:50:25] The progress is actually much, can be much more significant and much. You can see a massive improvement in those things. And you can, you can apply that. We use running as an example, you can apply that to weightlifting, to all these things, but making the, making the heavyweight feel lighter, even if you’re not actually increasing the weight is still progress.

[00:50:43] Os: [00:50:43] I agree, a hundred percent with you on that one. In fact, I was thinking about it as you were talking about it. Like my, my goal oftentimes is to, can I make it feel easier and to go through your running analogy? Like when I was in the army, you know, I went in there thinking that I could run, but I really only jog, like, that’s all I did.

[00:50:59] I jogged. [00:51:00] So having to run, uh, my, my time was 1156. I had to run under that time in order to maximize leads, I’d get a hundred percent of the score and that’s, that’s sub one of those mouth has to be under six months and the one has to be six miles. So that’s pretty fast. And, um, I did it by the end of basic training and I didn’t do it by going all out like that.

[00:51:23] You know my drill sergeant. I call it the hub, the Sergeant hopper protocol. So what you do is you, you run one lab out about like, like 90, 85% of what if you could do. If we went all out and you time yourself and then you go, okay, now I’m going to double that time run the second laT. And my third lab, I’m going to try to at least match that first run that I had.

[00:51:49] And you just keep doing that. Just keep doing that. And that’s all we did. So we never felt like it was this incredible effort. And when I got to basic, I mean, when I got to my final PT test in basic, [00:52:00] it was still challenging, but it felt easier to run that 1152, which is what I ran 1152, two mile. Then the first time when I ran two miles and 14:20, cause I’ve never done that.

[00:52:12] And, you know, I can pretty safely say that that was pretty much like one of those dumb full-out efforts because of the environment, you know, like you just like getting yelled at by drill sergeants. You’re trying to impress people. You don’t know what to do is your first test. You know, I probably would have ran a better time if I’d just calm myself down, but I took off from the gate and I probably just put myself in a bad position to finish that race.

[00:52:35] You know, where later, when I, when I had a better sense of my, my tempo, my timing, my pace, and how my body reacted to the two miles I finished and I felt great. We were celebrating I then. Yes. Right? So that, that goes through to your point about like, if it feels easier, that’s a win guys.

[00:52:55] Dave: [00:52:55] Yeah. And that’s so overlooked. That’s a, we, we think that the numbers have to reflect [00:53:00] it and it’s okay to be goal-driven. I’m all about setting goals. Yeah. If, if you are chasing performance and even if it’s not competition, if you’re, if it’s really important, you and you find passion in lifting heavier weights, but make sure you’re make sure you’re doing it appropriately for one, but it’s okay to chase numbers, but it’s also okay to not beat yourself up when the numbers don’t reflect.

[00:53:21] If you’re doing quality training, the numbers might not always reflect that, but if you can lift 15 and make that feel like a 50% effort compared to a 75% effort, you are significantly stronger. And that’s, that’s one thing to not overlook

[00:53:34] Os: [00:53:34] Yes. Well, it’s the guy like when you did the challenge and you did the 20 squats with a 315. Okay. That gnarly, right? Like, so, but you, you build that up and you know, when you got there, it may have felt, I can’t even imagine how that felt. I will never know. I will tell you that right now, but, but I will say this, it looked good.

[00:53:57] Your form, didn’t like break down at any one of [00:54:00] those reps. And when I watched that video very low key, I’m just like, looking like, come on Dave. And the form was there. Right. So those kind of efforts I’m all for, right. Or if you’re gonna, if you’re going to be the type of athlete that wants let’s to engage in that type of like really high level, hyper percentage, um, attempt, then do your mobility.

[00:54:23] If you’re getting your, do your rehab, don’t skip it. Get rest, get hydrated, have plenty of love in your life and a balance of friends and activities that you do and, and have a very gradual approach to the way that you do it. And that is probably the safest way that you can be a person that is constantly like I’m dipping their toes into that pool of like 90 to 95% and maintain that for a long time, because we started this conversation, talking a little bit about longevity and how you have to have this longterm outlook otherwise.

[00:54:54] You know, you paid the price for doing this incredible feats of strength. And this is something that we know from professional athletes. [00:55:00] Their bodies are trash, oftentimes after they retire or Olympians are notorious for this, they’re willing to do that because that’s like, that’s the ultimate, right? Like if you are an Olympic champion and that in that period of time, you were there the best in the world, you know, extensively.

[00:55:17] So, you know, I mean, I don’t know, I guess. That’s I guess, a certain mentality that some people have, but if you’re just X, X guy at X CrossFit, then do you really have to push it that hard? What is there to be gained from that, you know, in linking it and back to, you know, Being courageous and having discipline and being a person of integrity.

[00:55:39] Right. That all these things matter too. Right? Because this is about being a better human being, not just about, you know, trashing some records and your frat house when you’re in college. And then, Oh my baddest bag. I can’t help you move your bag friend.

[00:55:57] Dave: [00:55:57] Yeah. I think, I think that’s something you nailed that. And [00:56:00] it’s what most people you have taken out as reflection. If, if you can weigh out those risks and rewards and say like, Hey, yes, this is worth it. I’m training for this specific sport, this, this thing, but most people, and I guarantee you. Almost all people listening are not in that category.

[00:56:15] If you take it on a self reflection, being the best of your CrossFit gym or being the best that that stuff is, is great. But I would argue there’s ways. You can probably do that without pushing your body to the way that you might be currently doing it. Because if you break in 10 years and you can’t help your friends, if you can’t help your family, if you can’t be there as the father and the brother you need to be, then you’re not really, you’re not really being.

[00:56:42] Courageous. You’re not being a hero in those cases, you’re you actually might be sacrificing your, the longterm ability to live out your calling, to be there or for your family to do those things that are the reason most of us are here. And I think that’s a hard wake up call for some people to hear though.

[00:56:58] Os: [00:56:58] Yeah. I mean, a hundred [00:57:00] percent agree. Yes. You know, you mentioned that, you know, the, the hero thing and it reminds me of a. We can tie this back to how often should you do that, that max level thing. Right. And we’re talking about, you know, if you’re a competitive person, you know, you know, how many world championships could you potentially win right.

[00:57:18] In a career if I don’t know, depends on the sport. Right. But let’s focus on the, like more like strength, sports, right. So in the movie and the movie Deadpool, when Colossus tells him five times, right. Or something like that. And he’s like five what. He’s like be a hero it’s only five times. Like you’re not walking around a hero.

[00:57:38] You don’t brush your teeth, the hero, you know, you don’t like go to the store, a hero. Like there’s just a few times that you do these incredible things. And then that’s it. You want to save those efforts forward the com for the stage, for the competition, for when you, when you’re in this situations, that is really going to mean something the rest of the time.

[00:57:53] You don’t have to sacrifice the quality of your career, or if you are in that competitive nature, um, to experience [00:58:00] some success. Because again, you alluded to what’s the quality of life going to look like in a few decades if we just stretch it even more than that, because I think a lot of people perhaps may be like twenties early thirties, so they can see that.

[00:58:13] But what about when you’re like 60 or 70? And how, you know, are you going to be able to enjoy your life or are you going to be broken? Because if you have people already like alien and like, Oh my God, I can’t do anything. And they’re not even like 40 yet. Like you got a question like, well, shit, man, like what, what are you going to feel like when you’re 60 at this rate, unless you change your philosophy.

[00:58:34] And I should say that is always, there’s always. Time to change, no matter what you’ve done, you can always repair your body’s very resilient. So no matter what you’ve done, you can always make some changes and restructure some tissue and fix some patterns and be a little bit smarter. And you can have a part quality of life well into, you know, your late years.

[00:58:59] Dave: [00:58:59] Yeah, I [00:59:00] think that’s a good reminder for people too, is they think, well, it might be too late or I won’t be able to. Push myself at all. If I take the steps back and there’s, your body is amazing at adapting to whatever, whatever stimulus you’re giving it or not giving it and has an incredible way to, to heal itself and to repair.

[00:59:18] And there might just be in a lot of people that worry about why I don’t want to lose that, that push myself side of things. I enjoy that feeling there. There’s just smarter ways to do it too. There’s ways that you can use intervals and pick movements that are, are. High quality type movements where if you’re not a good squatter, but you have a really good hinge pattern, like use that as more of the conditioning stuff, push a sled, get on an assault bike, like do some of these lower skill movements.

[00:59:45] If you’re really looking for that, there are some ways to do that without necessarily doing a, you know, high rep snatch, barbell, snatch workout, which is very challenging and complex movement.

[00:59:58] Os: [00:59:58] Yeah. You know, I never [01:00:00] understood. The reasoning behind trying to make that into a conditioning exercise, because I, I enjoy watching the Olympics and I love at least seeing this lifters to do this incredible feats, but yeah, that’s, that’s one rep man, that’s one perfect rep, you know, and then, you know, you, when we start adding bout volume and fatigue to that, You’re not only putting yourself at risk, but you’re almost like desecrating the money you’re making.

[01:00:26] It looks so ugly. It’s like a shameful way to present this. You know, like this is such a beautiful expression of power and athleticism, you know? Um, let’s let it be what it, what it was meant to be. Let’s not turn into something else.

[01:00:40] Dave: [01:00:40] Yeah. And that gets back to where we started with moving vocabulary and knowing that it’s more, it’s not enough for a barbell snatch to just simply be okay. I’m picking up from the ground and I’m ending up with the bar overhead. Like there’s a lot more to it. And being able to find what your, what your goal is, what the movement is, what you’re trying to accomplish.

[01:00:59] There’s [01:01:00] as we’ve seen a lot of kettlebell swings, what about swings can look different person to person in some swings in quotes, some swings, his actual swings, but that’s, uh, until we define what that proper moving pattern is, it can, it can leave a lot of room for misinterpretation of the movement.

[01:01:16] Os: [01:01:16] Yup. It’s like, uh, my favorite coach of all time, Brett Jones, said, um, Anyone can swing a kettlebell, but not everyone can do the kettlebell swing. And I think anyone can just throw a bar overhead. Not anyone can do with this snatch, the barbell snatch, right?

[01:01:33] Dave: [01:01:33] Yeah. So true. I got to getBrad back on here sometime if

[01:01:36] Os: [01:01:36] Yes. That would be fantastic. I would love to hear him. I know he’s been doing a lot of stuff, so maybe it’s a good time to ask.

[01:01:42] Dave: [01:01:42] Yeah, uh, Os just great stuff today, you know, I always love talking to you and, uh, I’m so excited for people to hear, hear this one and so much good stuff in it. And I want to transition here as we work our way to the close. And when I initially approached you with the ideas do with all the guests that I [01:02:00] sought out to have on here, I was excited about having you on here and, uh, But a big thing that while we love the fitness side of things and we can talk health side of things all day long and also want this to be a place for men to be real with each other.

[01:02:13] And this, I think that’s such a, when we talk dangers of social media earlier in the podcast and all these things, things of appearances is it’s easy to see someone like yourself. Who’s. So fun to be around and energetic and knowledgeable and passionate and running a successful business and seeing these things.

[01:02:28] And it’s easy to get caught, comparing, comparing to someone else to thinking, Oh, they have it all together. And I can say with all of our guests, you, you and I both know that’s okay. Not the case. And that couldn’t be further from the truth that our journeys have been challenging, had ups and downs and all these things.

[01:02:43] So would love if you don’t mind being real with listeners. Uh, if you can share a challenge, maybe you’re going through as a, man either currently or something you’ve gone through in the past, that’s ended up being a real catalyst for your growth as a man yourself.

[01:02:57] Os: [01:02:57] Yeah. So this is like really personal [01:03:00] and I don’t think it’s something that we got to. And the first time that we talked about, I’m really happy to share it because it’s important. So, um, even though I’ve been in the fitness industry for about 15 years, cause I went right into it right after I got out of the army in 2005 and four, um, And I picked up right with the kettlebells and all that.

[01:03:19] Like the timing of it was fantastic. You know, like I started doing things that weren’t really popular at the time and I was able to reach some early success with that and I felt pretty good about myself. And then shortly after that, I started dancing for the company, uh, mojo LA and you know, I’m like being asked like, Oh, you want to come to Europe with the company?

[01:03:36] I’m like, are you serious? Like, I, I feel pretty good about myself. Let’s just say right. And then, um, I decided that the challenge for me, that I wanted to fulfill was to get a degree. I want it to get into your education was very. Important to my family. It was like, put into my head. Like, you need to get a degree.

[01:03:58] You need to get a degree, which I, by [01:04:00] the way, I no longer think this is like good advice. But, but for me it was, you know, for my, the way that I grew up and where I came from, it was good. I needed to do that. And I did. And that was very challenging, but that really wasn’t the challenge. So. You know, once we closed the first iron core, about 2011, um, closed down.

[01:04:20] And I was just about going into my last year of college. And school was hard, you know, struggling with my four final, uh, higher level accounting classes. I had like fraud investigation, advanced accounting, uh, advanced partnership taxation, and some other thing, you know, and I was like, tough. Get out the economic downturn, like hit right about that time.

[01:04:44] So then I can find a job and I’m doing all these free internships just to get some experience through whatever. And it was just a grind man. Every time one of those like emails came back, were regret to inform you, we’re not going to pursue you anymore as a [01:05:00] candidate or something like that. Or sometimes you don’t hear it at all.

[01:05:02] And you know, you’re just calling like, Hey, I just want to check on my application or something. Those were trying times, like, I remember specifically one time I was sitting at a loss that’s when Oklahoma Boulevard and I’m having a coffee, probably the last, like $3 that I had in my bank account. Um, and, and I’m sitting there and I get this email and I had just been putting all of my energy into it. Hopefully I get this one, I really needed this.

[01:05:25] I like out of money. I don’t know what else to do and I didn’t get it. And I just sat there and I was crying like straight up, like, just like. I don’t know what to do. Like I just didn’t know what to do. And this went on for a long time. And eventually of course, as always, it happens, things turn around and you get that one big break.

[01:05:44] And, you know, in my case in accounting, I’d never had a big break. I just had breaks, but I did get a job. And then I got a little bit of a better job when I moved to Texas briefly. And then I came back to San Diego and eventually I ended up getting enough experience in the field to where now I feel a [01:06:00] very competent business owner.

[01:06:02] So I think the lesson there is that maybe, you know, something is very difficult about finishing school. It was extremely difficult. I didn’t feel accomplished or successful. I didn’t feel accomplished successfully looking for jobs and getting all that rejection. Tons of it. I think that at one time I was looking through my old emails.

[01:06:20] I had a folder, I would drop every application that I had put in and it was like over 200 jobs. That’s 200, like no’s that you have to deal with emotionally and feeling like, but what if you keep, like, just trusting in that, like, you know, I put in this work, things will workout and that’s the discipline, right?

[01:06:40] Because you don’t see the big number right then. You know, there wasn’t the big salary or the big offer or anything like that. I had to just keep doing the little fundamentals. It’s also along the way, very much like we were talking about earlier and that paid off for me in the long run, because I had some awesome jobs.

[01:06:55] And most importantly, now I feel like there’s nothing I don’t know about my business. [01:07:00] In fact, I’ve been thinking about doing a course for personal trainers, you know, like how to run your business. Here’s how to do a forecast here, how to do your income statement and your cash flow and all of that stuff.

[01:07:09] So it was worth it in the end, but it was a trying time.

[01:07:13] Dave: [01:07:13] That’s so great. I really appreciate you sharing that, man. And that’s a, it’s tough for, for you. That was that situation for a lot of listeners. They’ve gone through something similar. I’m sure. I know. I have plenty of examples of that, where the learning that you’re gaining during that though. And I do believe that.

[01:07:29] It’s being worked out for our good and that the learning and the challenges and those trials are what is going to eventually propel you to something that you might not be able to see right now, but that you’ll be able to use in, in positive in some way for, for yourself, hopefully, but more importantly for others.

[01:07:45] Os: [01:07:45] Yeah, absolutely. That without a doubt, 

[01:07:47] important. 

3 Takeaways

[01:07:48] Dave: [01:07:48] Yeah, that’s so great. And I want to give three summaries here to take away from at least some of the things that I wrote down. And as always, I did write down way more than three. So I have to try and [01:08:00] try and prioritize what the top three were. And I ended up, I ended up just combining a couple of them into one point to make it work.

[01:08:06] I’m not really good at prioritizing down, but, uh, one of the first things is, so don’t let nearsightedness keep you from reaching your long term goals. Uh, knowing, knowing when to go hard and when to back off is, is super important. The competition is against yourself and who you were yesterday and not against someone else.

[01:08:24] I love when you say that thing, the second point is to invest in your fitness and your health like you do in school, career and finances. I, I loved hearing that. I don’t, I don’t think I heard it quite like that before and yeah. We’re so we’re so willing to throw money and time and these things at, at these things that are important, for sure.

[01:08:46] Don’t get us wrong, but our fitness and our health is what’s going to help us to show up for those around us, especially as we talk sustainability and then last piece. Is that mental toughness is not necessarily pushing [01:09:00] yourself and going hard, every workout, but it’s the consistency and the discipline over time.

[01:09:04] And I think that’s something that I hope we reiterate because that’s something that is super important and mental toughness doesn’t have to be pushing yourself in isolation. But how do you do that day in day out for years and years and decades. So love that. Anything you want to add to, to those points?

[01:09:19] I know we talked about a lot of good things, but anything that stands out

[01:09:21] Os: [01:09:21] man. No, you know me, if I start talking again, it’ll be another 15 minutes. So yeah, I think you did a great job. Look, you summarize really well. That was great.

[01:09:31] Dave: [01:09:31] Well, that was like six points I wrote down that I like pick and pick and choose and combine a couple of them. Like those, those go, those go hand in hand enough to make it one point. it. Love it Os. 

[01:09:41] Os: [01:09:41] I won’t judge you for that. I think it was wonderful.

[01:09:44] Dave: [01:09:44] Cool. So last thing today, this is our hypothetical scenario asking all the guests that come on here.

[01:09:48] And we’re saying that you’re leaving your favorite coffee shop and you run into your younger self of 10 years back. So younger us, you for some life advice. You’re on your way to a super important [01:10:00] meeting. You only have 60 seconds to talk with him. Yes. I’m holding you to 60 seconds here. Ask what advice are you giving him?

[01:10:05] And what he’s you need an actual timer here.

[01:10:11] Os: [01:10:11] All right. So I think that if I run into my, my younger self, what I would tell him is to trust his gut instincts, to trust his instincts, because, um, I learned that later about late twenties and early thirties, that’s when I really started to get in sync with what that should feel like because I had a friend that passed away and we had a lot of time to talk.

[01:10:34] You know, he was going through the process. He had ALS. And he said, if you remember nothing from our conversations, remember to trust your inner voice, your instincts, because they’re usually right. Right. And after that, it was hard to ignore that. And once I started to apply it, my life turned around like a big time, like the quality of my life and my disposition was completely different.

[01:10:54] And even though you can think like, well, you weren’t late twenties. That’s not so late. Let’s say it [01:11:00] was 27 that’s seven years, you know, potentially between 20. And when I came into the army and it’s the twenties or rather 21 and 27 that I could have made different choices, you know? And so I think that that’s important too, to just trust your instincts, you know, and just recognize that that’s a real thing.

[01:11:16] It’s not, it’s not some hippie stuff from California guys, like you and me.

[01:11:21] Dave: [01:11:21] No, that’s, that’s great. Awesome advice. And I think that’s, I think we can all agree that that’s something that we can get away from. So thanks for sharing that with us. This was awesome, man. I really. You being on here, where, where can people find you? Where can they reach out to you?

[01:11:33] Os: [01:11:33] Yes. So our website is our Iron Core way.com and there is all the information for our locations, including the one in Oceanside where we just opened, uh, may or June 1st, um, a very nice facility about 2,800 square feet, uh, kettlebells, you know, body weight. Uh, anyone that follows me on social media will know, by the way that is, um, the Instagram feed is Iron core way and we just opened the one for the facility, this iron [01:12:00] core Oceanside.

[01:12:01] So that one is more about, you know, showcasing clients and just being a little bit more lighthearted where the Iron core way, it’s more about the hardcore philosophy behind what we do and how we do it. Um, and then there are YouTube, our YouTube channel is the iron core way channel and I want it’s more educational.

[01:12:19] So I post a lot of like, you know, technique bits in there. You know, some, I have a pistol tutorial and there’s like 30 minutes. It covers everything. It’s basically like a program is free. Go, go watch. It thinks about the dead cleans and snatches and things like that. So probably the best resource that I have so far out there that is completely free, that anyone can access.

[01:12:40] Well, yeah, those are all of our mediums to reach out into the community.

[01:12:43] Dave: [01:12:43] Yeah, I highly recommend people checking those channels out. A lot of good free content. There you take thousands and thousands of hours and dollars worth of investments and package them into easy, to, easy to understand things. So that’s, that’s awesome. You’re sharing that and I appreciate you being on here.

[01:12:58] I had had a lot of fun and [01:13:00] excited for people to listen to this one and hopefully it impacts them positively.

[01:13:04] Os: [01:13:04] Thank you. It was a pleasure to be on.

[01:13:06]Dave: [01:13:06] Thanks so much for listening to today’s episode of the Men Made For More podcast. I hope you found today’s show valuable and you have some actionable strategies you can apply to your life today. This is your first time listening. Thanks for being here. The aim of this podcast is to provide a ton of the best possible content to help you grow in your journey, to becoming the best version of yourself.

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[01:14:03] Keep challenging yourself growing and know that it’s okay to get out of your comfort zone and know that you’re made for more. Thanks for listening and see you guys soon.

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